Talk:Paratrooper

Less US focus?

Is there anyone out there who could make this article apply more generally to paratroopers, and less specifically to US paratroopers? --85.224.196.223 21:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, there is way too much focus on US paratroopers here

I agree with this too. I see no reason why the US paratroopers should get more attention than paratroopers from other countries; I suggest that we trim it down considerably and make the article more neutral rather than country-specific. Suicidal Lemming (talk) 21:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

• Support I might take a stab at it in a few days, but don't let that slow anyone else down. Rklawton (talk) 22:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone else feel that the role of the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion should be mentioned here? I'm please to see there is a Wikipedia entry about them, but if you don't know to search for "1st Canadian Airborne" or "1st Canadian Parachute Batallion", it won't come up. Most people would logically search for "paratrooper", so I think it's fair that Canada should come up in that search too. They fought in WWII along with the British Airborne. My friend who is a military history buff had no idea there were Canadian parachutists in WWII! I explained to him my grandfather was one of them. I just feel if people search for the history of paratroopers than the Canadian role should be included. Please correct me if it's in here! I don't see Canada in the list whatsoever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.18.242.1 (talk) 13:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Previous discussion

EETech added a lot of material to this page which has been incorporated into the article. The remainder of the material is left below for reference, but I didn't think it was wanted in the article. Kcordina 13:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

The orignal article had only "The five points of performance" listed under safety, but you could also include the remainder of the sustained airborne training because it is also part of safety. If I have more time, I will add some additional info. (I've been a paratrooper and jumpmaster for 7 of my 13 years of service). EETech 04:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

4. Activation of the Reserve Parachute.

a.then itll work

utilizing the pull drop method. Maintain a good tight body position. With either hand grasp the ripcord grip. Turn your head in either direction. Pull up on the ripcord grip and drop it. Your reserve parachute will active. Ensure neither hand is in front of the reserve parachute as it deploys.

b. To activate your reserve parachute for a malfunction, you will utilize the “Pull Drop Method.” Maintain a good tight body position. Grasp the left carrying handle with your left hand; with your right hand, grasp the ripcord grip. Turn your head in either direction. Pull out on the ripcord grip and drop it. Your reserve parachute will activate.

c. In the event your Reserve Parachute does not activate, maintain a good tight body position, grasp the left carrying handle with your left hand, with your right hand sweep the Rip Cord Protector Flap up and away ensuring your hand does not stay in front of the Reserve Parachute.

5. Towed Parachutist.

a. If you become a towed parachutist, and you are being towed by your universal static line, and you are unconscious, you will be retrieved back inside the aircraft. If you are conscious, maintain a good tight body position. Place your right hand over the ripcord protector flap with your right forearm protecting the ripcord grip. When jumping the soft loop center pull MIRPS you will place either hand on the ripcord protector flap fingers pointed downward. An attempt will be made to retrieve you. If you cannot be retrieved, your universal static line will be cut. As soon as you feel yourself falling free from the aircraft, activate your reserve parachute utilizing the Pull Drop Method.

Who's the jackass who edited it to say "If you become a dumb towed parachutist?" Real immature.

b. If you become a towed parachutist and you are being towed by any item of equipment, whether you are conscious or unconscious, that item of equipment will be cut immediately and your main parachute will deploy.

6. Entanglements. There are two types of entanglements: High altitude and Mid altitude.

a. If you see you are going to become entangled with another jumper, immediately slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away, immediately assume a spread eagle position and try to bounce off the fellow jumper’s canopy or suspension lines. If you do become entangled, snap into a modified position of attention. Place your right hand over the ripcord protector flap, with your right forearm protecting the ripcord grip. With your left hand, attempt to weave your way out of the suspension lines the same way you entered. When jumping the soft loop center pull MIRPS you will place either hand on the ripcord protector flap fingers pointed downward. With the opposite hand attempt to weave your way out of the suspension lines the same way you entered.

b. If you become hopelessly entangled, and you are jumping the T-10D main parachute, the higher jumper will use the hand under hand method to climb down to the lower jumper. Once they are even, both jumpers will grasp each other’s main lift web and decide what type of parachute landing fall they will make. Both jumpers will fall in the same direction. You will not do a front parachute-landing fall. Both jumpers will observe both canopies. If one canopy collapses, both jumpers will ride the one good canopy to the ground. One T-10D parachute can sustain both jumpers. If both canopies collapse, both jumpers will immediately push or turn away, creating a clear unobstructed path, and then activate their reserve parachute utilizing the Pull Drop Method.

c. If you are jumping the MC1-1D parachute, and you become hopelessly entangled, both jumpers will stay where they are, ensure they have a clear unobstructed path, then immediately activate their reserve parachute utilizing the Pull Drop Method.

7. Emergency Landings. There are three types of emergency landings: Tree Landing, Wire Landing and Water Landing. The first one I’ll discuss is:

a. Tree Landing. If you see yourself drifting towards a body of trees, immediately try to slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away and your equipment has already been lowered, look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you and jettison your equipment, making a mental note of where it lands. If your equipment has not already been lowered, keep it on you to provide additional protection as you pass through the trees. Assume a good prepare to land attitude by keeping your feet and knees together, knees slightly bent, chin on your chest, eyes open, and your hands in front of your face with your elbows high. Be prepared to do a PLF in the event you pass through the trees. If you get hung up in the trees and you do not feel you can safely lower yourself to the ground, stay where you are and wait for assistance.

If you decide to climb down, jettison all unneeded equipment. Ensure that you maintain your ballistic helmet. Activate the quick release in the waistband then activate the chest strap ejector snap. Place your left hand over the ripcord protector flap and apply slight pressure. Ensure you have a clear and unobstructed path then activate the reserve parachute and lower it to the ground. Undo the left connector snap and rotate the reserve parachute to the right. Seat yourself well into the saddle. Activate the leg strap ejector snaps and climb down the outside of the reserve parachute. When in doubt, stay where you are and wait for assistance.

b. Wire Landing. If you are drifting towards wires, immediately try to slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away, look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you and jettison your equipment, making a mental note of where it lands. Assume a prepare to land attitude by keeping your feet and knees together, exaggerating the bend in your knees, eyes open, chin on chest, and arch your back. Place the palms of your hands high on the inside of the front set of risers. When you make contact with the wires, begin a hard rocking motion and attempt to pass through the wires. Be prepared to do a PLF in the event you pass through the wires. If you get hung up in the wires, do not attempt to lower yourself to the ground. Stay where you are and wait for assistance.

c. Water Landing. If you are drifting towards a body of water, immediately try to slip or turn away. If you cannot slip or turn away, look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you, and lower your equipment. You will also jettison your ballistic helmet, making a mental note of where it lands. Activate the quick release in your waistband, unsnap the left connector snap and rotate the reserve parachute to the right. Activate the chest strap ejector snap and immediately regain canopy control. Prior to entering the water, assume a prepare to land attitude by keeping your feet and knees together, knees slightly bent, eyes open, chin on your chest, and both hands on the leg strap ejector snaps. Upon making contact with the water, activate the leg strap ejector snaps, then throw your arms up and attempt to slide out of the parachute harness. Once in the water, you will swim upstream or upwind away from the canopy. Be prepared to do a PLF in the event the water is shallow.

8. B-7 Life Preserver. When jumping the B-7 life preserver, you will activate the B-7 life preserver while still in the air. You will not jettison any of your equipment. Look below you to ensure there are no fellow jumpers below you and lower your equipment. Assume a prepare to land attitude and be prepared to do a PLF in the event the water is shallow. Once in the water, activate one canopy release assembly by using one of the two methods of recovery from the drag previously described.

9. Night Jump. When jumping at night, always give your canopy an extra look. Maintain noise discipline and a good interval between fellow jumpers. Be prepared to do a PLF because you will hit the ground approximately 5 to 10 seconds before you think you will.

10. AWADS. When jumping under AWADS conditions, do not lower your equipment until you have cleared through the clouds. Do not slip or turn unless you have to do so to avoid a collision. If you have any kind of malfunction, immediately activate your reserve parachute because you cannot compare your rate of descent with that of fellow jumpers.

11. Parachute Landing Falls. At this time we will move to the parachute landing fall platform and execute one satisfactory parachute-landing fall in each of the four directions. Remember to expose the lower three points of contact for the modified parachute-landing fall. EETech 20:09, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Can glider troops be considered paratroopers. They are airborne forces, but I would think that equating those two are the same as equating paratroopers to heli-borne infantry. Sure they may be qualified paratroopers, but in the context of their deployment, would they really be considered paratroops? say1988 02:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Paratrooper movie?

wasmt tehre a movie named paratrooper made in 1953 with alan ladd, leo geen, and susan stephen?

Split paratrooper unit list into new article

The bulky list of world paratrooper units is a detractor from this article. It should be split off into it's own article with a summary paragraph in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.114.133.158 (talk) 00:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

Agree, according List of ... type articles. Also, a table (with some extra data such main base, etc would better than a list. --Jor70 00:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Geneva Convention?

I recall hearing from my Marine father that paratroopers are not entitled to the same protections that, say, ejected fighter pilots are entitled to during their descent. Should a section perhaps be added to deal with some of the distinctions in how the conventions apply to Paratroopers as opposed to other types of soldiers? 71.198.127.97 07:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. Ejecting pilots are considered non-combatants. Paratroopers, on the other hand, are an immanent threat. They can be shot out of the sky by anyone foolish enough to try just as legally as shooting a grunt off a truck. Rklawton (talk) 02:59, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Date confirmation for UK

"Britain's first airborne assault took place on February 10, 194" can we get a date for this event.--82.9.116.89 18:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

French Paratroopers

I have added infos related to the history of French Airborne units. their history started in 1956 in the article. Will add references later if necessary and when I find reliable sources in English. Edmond HUET (talk) 20:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Heavy Drop

...is also US military parlance for a fat ass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avitor (talk • contribs) 17:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

US Army

This article contains too much information about the American paratroopers. Please, make reference to the English, German, Russian... paratroopers and remove any useless information about the American paratroopers. Regards --195.158.103.93 (talk) 06:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to add whatever you want. That's what Wikipedia is all about.EETech (talk) 06:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Who defines "useless?" Caisson 06 (talk) 18:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The section on Parachute training is incorrect. When a service member completes the course and receives his Parachutist Badge, he/she becomes a "Military Parachutist," not a "Paratrooper." One becomes a paratrooper only after being assigned to an airborne unit, such as the 82nd Airborne Division, etc., not merely upon being awarded jump wings. (GregJackP (talk) 15:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC))

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 10:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Overlap

I'm not an expert, but I think this article has a lot of overlap now with the Airborne forces and the different countries. I guess this article should be about just the specifics of paratroopers, and general airborne forces content could be in the other articles. If someone has experience in separating articles, maybe the training section could hold as an article of its own. I think it's the main reason of the "US-centric" complains, being so prominent in this article.

I'll try to work on this as my limited time permits, but feel free to jump in (pun not intended :-) ) --Cmontero (talk) 22:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Dubious?

What's dubious about this: "This badge allows the now 'paratrooper' to be assigned to an airborne position within an airborne unit." Rklawton (talk) 18:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The badge does not make one a 'paratrooper,' which is the point. At jump school they make it very clear that completing the course does not make one a paratrooper, all it does is make one a 'military parachutist.' I suppose things could have changed since I attended jump school almost 30 years ago, but all the jump wings meant is that you were qualified to be assigned to an airborne unit - you only became a paratrooper on such an assignment. (GregJackP (talk) 22:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC))

Here's the definition of paratrooper: "A type of soldier who is trained to enter combat zones by parachuting from aircraft." It says nothing about whether or not the soldier has been assigned to an airborne unit. What you remember the cadre telling you and what is verifiable for this article may be two different things. Wikipedia's standards are that claims must be verifiable, and the definition of paratrooper - which you dispute based on hearsay - is verifiable via the dictionary. In short, what you remember hearing 30 years ago carries no weight; what the dictionary tells us carries sufficient weight that it's clear a dubious tag is not warranted. Rklawton (talk) 23:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

It is not just based on my personal experiences, interpretations or opinion. Let's look at the dictionary definitions:

[1]

• Random House Dictionary - "a member of a military infantry unit trained to attack or land in combat areas by parachuting from airplanes."

This definition doesn't require the unit to be an airborne unit - just that the soldier is trained to parachute from airplanes. It entirely supports my position. However, the definition is clearly dated as it only applies to infantry and only to airplanes. Rklawton (talk) 02:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

• The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition - "A member of the paratroops."

This definition would allow someone to be called a paratrooper even if they've never been trained and never made a jump. Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

[2]

• Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary - "A member of the paratroops."

This definition would allow someone to be called a paratrooper even if they've never been trained and never made a jump. Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

[3]

• Cambridge International Dictionary of English - "(a military unit of) soldiers trained to be dropped from an aircraft with a parachute"

The word in question is "paratrooper" not "paratroops" (defined above), so this definition is entirely irrelevant. Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The entries with "a member of the paratroops" doesn't really define the word that well, but both Random House and Cambridge define it as being a member of an airborne unit - not as individual soldiers who may be trained to be part of that unit.

It is not based on personal opinion.

What definition are you citing? From where? (GregJackP (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC))

I was citing Wictionary's definition. The Student Brigade that provides the U.S. Army's airborne training *is* an airborne unit, so yes, U.S. Army Airborne school graduates are trained, have jumped, and did belong to an airborne unit. The definitions you provided don't work for the reasons noted above. Rklawton (talk) 02:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Here's another way of looking at it. If a soldier graduates from the Army's medic school and they are assigned to a transportation unit and end up driving a truck, are they still a medic? Of course they are - and they can apply their skills when called upon to do so. Likewise, a graduate of the U.S. Army Airborne school is a paratrooper and may be called upon to make a jump when the mission calls for it whether or not their unit has the "airborne" designation. Rklawton (talk) 02:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, and have provided references and material to support that position. The 1st of the 507th is a school unit, and is not, as noted in one of the definitions, training the students to attack - but merely to jump out of perfectly good airplanes. I respect your opinion, I understand that you are an Admin, but I disagree with your position. I believe that you are incorrect, and are dismissive of the cites provided.

There are other options also - such as rewording that sentence. What about "This badge allows the now 'paratrooper'graduate to be assigned to an airborne 'paratrooper' position within an airborne unit."

As I noted on your talk page, I don't think that we will necessarily agree, and I would suggest that we ask a third party for their opinion. I have been respectful and civil and I am trying to resolve this within the bounds of WP:DR. (GregJackP (talk) 03:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC))

Proposed: unless an editor can find a U.S. military publication that states soldiers are not referred to as paratroopers unless they have been trained accordingly AND assigned to unit designated as "airborne," then there's no reason to add the "dubious" tag to the sentence noted above. No less than two dictionary definitions support this approach, and the remaining definitions cited don't even make training or jumping a requirement for the "paratrooper" designation - thereby rendering these definitions useless for the purposes of this article. Rklawton (talk) 02:57, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Why not just reword the sentence, as noted above?(GregJackP (talk) 03:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC))

History, U.S.

The article reports that the U.S. Army created its first test platoon in 1940. This is in keeping with Army tradition. However, the 1935 movie West Point of the Air (filmed in 1934 on location at Randolf Field) clearly shows paratroopers exiting a large biplane formation during flight school graduation ceremonies at the movie's end. The film footage makes it pretty clear that some sort of test unit existed at least as early as 1934. However, before changing the article, it would make sense to find a few more sources. Any takers? Rklawton (talk) 23:01, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm writing from memory here, but there were interwar arguments about the ownership of the airborne in the US; I'm guessing that the 1934 film might be showing non-Army paratroopers at work, inkeeping with the statement that the first US Army test platoon was then formed in 1940. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Also writing from memory, the plans for the 1919 offensive against Germany included turning the US 1st Infantry Division into the 1st Parachute Infantry Division and dropping it on Metz. This might be worth further research. Graham1973 (talk) 12:59, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

If it's "non-Army" - then what is it? Navy? Marines? Civilians? The whole movie was a show-case for the U.S. Army Air Corps, so there's every reason to suspect that the paratroopers were U.S. Army soldiers. Perhaps the Army's current paratroopers can trace back an unbroken line to the 1940 test platoon, but I think it's clear that the test platoon did not comprise the first U.S. Army soldiers trained to jump. The 1930's saw many innovations - some great, some terrible, and even some of the great innovations were shelved by a moribund top brass. Rklawton (talk) 14:25, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Italian paratroopers

This section is full of information that is not well-organized and (likely) poorly translated (though the Italian page is of no use on this particular article). What's wrong with linking to the main article, as is? How can we reduce the section on Italy to minimally describe the Italian paratroopers for this article and refer readers to the other article for a full picture? Paulmnguyen (talk) 20:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The first Italian/Libyan paratroop groups had the most gawd awful parachute ever ever used for paratroopers. It was based on an early escape parachute for aircraft pilots. A lot of Libyans got hurt using them, along with those from Peru trained by Italy (ie Peru was the first nation to use paratroopers in combat in the Americas in July 1941). The reasoning for the Libyan colonial paratroopers were to seize waterholes when the Italian Army was in pursuit of raiders. Jack --Jackehammond (talk) 04:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

its not lebanese , it cant be... im lebanese and i know that in 1991 there was no italian paratroupers droed in lebanon , ... please make sure the facts are right and fix it ...--Jadraad (talk) 13:57, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

References

All the references provided are WW2 based.124.149.173.51 (talk) 03:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Benajamin Franklin

There's a quote by Benjamin Franklin: "Five thousand balloons, capable of raising two men each, could not cost more than five ships of the line; and where is the prince who can afford so to cover his country with troops for its defense as that 10,000 men descending from the clouds might not in many places do an infinite deal of mischief before a force could be brought together to repel them?"Smallman12q (talk) 20:14, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

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Untitled

Hi

I am writing a story, I want to use the word a paratrooper would use to refer to the portal in the plane they jump from. How would a Navy frog jumper refer to it or how would any paratrooper refer to it? Bschmidt (talk) 16:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC)